Australia - the right attitude

[Greenballs]

:smiley20: Now this is a country with all its ducks in a row... couldn't agree more! Take time to read the following and if the Poms & Yanks had the same attitude they wouldn't be having terrorist threats on home turf, as they have had!!! :smiley20:

:smiley32: Three Cheers for Australia:smiley32:

Those Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on
Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals
in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.

A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to
Australia at a special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he and
his ministers made it clear that extremists would face a crackdown.

Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that
some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not
accept that Australia was a secular state and its laws were made by
parliament. "If those are not your values, if you want a country which
has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you," he
said on national television.

"I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws
governing people in Australia, one the Australian law and another the
Islamic law, that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law,
independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the
opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then,
that's a better option," Costello said.

Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he said
those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the other
country.

Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters that Muslims who
did not want to accept local values should "clear off". "Basically,
people who don't want to be Australians, and they don't want to live by
Australian values and understand them, well then they can basically
clear off," he said. Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims
on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's
mosques.

AMERICA and Canada..... ARE YOU LISTENING?

Quote:
IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It I am tired
of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual
or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we have
experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.

However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the
"politically correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility that
our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor
do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming
to Australia. However, there are a few things that those who have
recently come to
our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand.

This idea of Australia being a multicultural community has served only
to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Australians, we
have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own
lifestyle. This culture has been developed over two centuries of
struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have
sought freedom.

We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese,
Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to
become part of our society, Learn the language!

Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right
wing, political push but a fact because Christian men and women, on
Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly
documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of
our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another
part of the world as your new home. Because God is part of our culture.

We will accept your beliefs and will not question why, all we ask is
that you accept ours and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.

If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like " A Fair Go", then
you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We
are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really
don't care how you did things where you came from. By all means keep
your culture but do not force it on others.

This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you
every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining,
whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs,
or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other
great Australian freedom, "THE RIGHT TO LEAVE".

If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here.
You asked to be here, so accept the country YOU accepted.

[kfm]

Bloody right.... Its great to see people with the balls to be a little politically incorrect.

[biffon]

the attitude is Noble, but im afraid it wont stop Australia being a target for Islamic extremists any more than any other western or Christian/Jewish state.
The basic belief of some islamic followers is that there should be no other belief and that blasphemers should be eradicated by jihad.
Australia is bordered (albeit seperated by 400kms of Timor sea) by the largest Islamic State in the world, that makes this government VERY nervous when it comes to dealing with their Islamic Australian citizens/residents.

[TiGeR]

Agreed- you can posture & postulate all you want, but at the end of the day if Muslim RADICALS get enough support/ following & the REAL Muslims remain silent, then at some point there's going to be the reckoning... here's hoping the Christian/ Jewish/ Secular world has the balls to do some hard things if that time ever came... concerntration camps & all out annihilation...because how do you beat an enemy who has no respect for civilians, who believes with EVERY fibre of their being that they are doing the work of Allah & that if they die for the cause, in Jihad, they will be in heaven & rewarded with a whole heap of virgins...

The end game?...ARMAGGEDON

[Greenballs]

the attitude is Noble, but im afraid it wont stop Australia being a target for Islamic extremists any more than any other western or Christian/Jewish state.
The basic belief of some islamic followers is that there should be no other belief and that blasphemers should be eradicated by jihad.
Australia is bordered (albeit seperated by 400kms of Timor sea) by the largest Islamic State in the world, that makes this government VERY nervous when it comes to dealing with their Islamic Australian citizens/residents.

Nevertheless... its the right attitude to have. Walk the streets of London & New York & you will struggle to see a Brit or Yank, which is wanked and is asking for trouble!!!:naughty:

[besame las nalgas]

Nevertheless... its the right attitude to have. Walk the streets of London & New York & you will struggle to see a Brit or Yank, which is wanked and is asking for trouble!!!:naughty:

so what the fk about the other people on this planet ????????????? so if people arent christian they should be punished.. same old xenephobic atavistic bullshit..

by the above statement do you mean WHITE??? coz i see plenty of brits and i saw plenty of yanks when i was in london and NY maybe not many white people but i saw plenty dont mistake your old fashioned notions of national identities with the reality of advanced capitalist countries that have been exposed to the global market..
i think fuckers just need to stop worrying about the next guy and errrm EVOLVE..i dont care what religion or color the next person is.. does it really matter??? and if it does to you.. ask yourself why you are so pathetic and useless that the daily workings of individual unknown and unrelated to you matters so much????????

and i dont mean u in particular.. i mean people in general

[TiGeR]

Some good points there...the world has certainly changed & how we define ourselves can say a lot about us...i thought you handled yourself VERY well considering the emotive nature of this topic my baby! :smiley32:

Lets take for instance the SAfrican kid who immigrated to the States with his family, wrote an essay about being an "African American" (a title that PISSES ME OFF! :smiley35: ) & won...only to get his prize withdrawn because he was white! The case went to litigation, where he argued that he was indeed "African American" by virtue of being from Africa & now resident in America...HEAPS of argument & semantics later he won his case & got his prize! :smiley20:
OR
The argument about who the first "African" on Mt Everest is/was...Cathy O'dowd & Ian Woodhall + the oke who died (all white SAfricans) climbed a few yrs ago & then a yr ago, Sibusiso Vilane became the first BLACK African (is THAT a term that can be used to define an african?) to climb Everest & he was feted as the first 'African' to do it...which in my opinion is INCORRECT...anyway, THAT debate is raging here in SA...

Brings me to my next one...along the same lines...funny how folk in Zim/ SA define themselves as 'white'/ European & then when they go overseas or it suits them, they are "African" because they are born there/ have lived there all their life/ because they have chosen to live there... i mean WTF?!?!? DECIDE what/ who you want to be & get on with it...after all, its just a label...peel away the skin & we are all the same! (SUCH a cliche! I have been waiting my WHOLE life to use it tho'! :smiley2: ) I was called a 'rhodie' the other day by a "when we" (what the Saffas call Rhodesians who left pre-Independence... see, there i go ascibing to / using LABELS to define ppl!) But i digress!...Anyway...i asked him why & he said "because you were born in Salisbury, Rhodesia, NOT Harare, Zimbabwe....& he is not wrong ... the strangest thing about it is that my birth cert. SAYS that!..& when intried to get a new one 3 yrs ago, they (Home Affairs dept in Hre that is- @ the notorious Makombe Buildings for those of you who went to get passports/ ID/ drivers in Hre) said leave it! :smiley3:

What about the Irish/ Scots who HATE the English... & the English (& Americans if South PArk is to be believed :smiley36: ) who HATE the French...is that racism? If not, SHOULD it be classed as such? If any of you guys in Europe havent been to Auschitz/ Belsen or to the Baltics (Bosnia, Serbia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia etc) do yourselves a favour....GO! & See what (white) people did to other (white) ppl because they believed/ thought/ assumed they were inferior...sadly, the western/ 'white' world watched this saga unfold for too long...

So...where am i going with all this? Basically, its in our nature to divide & conquer (look at the history of mankind through the ages- define a group & kill/ subjugate those that dont fit into it because they are 'lesser'...all the empires were built on this principle...just look at all the extreme / fringe groups that are threatening our very existence today- neo nazis, fundamentalist christians (made you think didnt i!? Remember Tim McVey bombings in Oklahoma?..um hmmm....) extremist muslims, hindus, africans (another sharp breath?- look at Bob in Zim, Idi Amin in Uganda, the PAC in SA, they of the 'one boer, one bullet' slogan to name a few...but in doing so, we lose our own humanity & lose the values that we are often so short of in our own culture/ personality...but we have the power to change it...to make a difference- one day at a time, one person at a time...look at what happened in the US & SA through individuals on both sides of the colour bar making a change in their own lives...look at how christian, jews & muslims lived side by side for SO long in the holy land...it CAN be done!... this is all IMVHO of course!

Shew...:smiley29: havin a brain explosion!

[zambezilover]

good on you Aussies. If people immigrate to a country they musnt complain about it and try and change things. If they dont like it then leave, its as simple as that

[Shayne]

Some good valid points there Tiger. Nice.

I ask the question that everyone is thinking... "When will they ban Islam?"

[besame las nalgas]

it aint funny when people start picking on whitey though..init

[biffon]

Its also funny that "whiteys" as you so eloquently defined them, are always considered to be racist but noone else is......

[leggless]

Well finally the new saying you don't like it Tough, Tell osama he cares

[besame las nalgas]

:smiley19: Its also funny that "whiteys" as you so eloquently defined them, are always considered to be racist but noone else is......

thanks for proving my point.. its not nice when people start using nasty terms like that is it?? so dont do it to others..u see how offended you got when i said whitey??

noone said other groups aint racist, the thing is if you are black or any other ethnic group you complain about the wayyou are being mistreated.. you are told you have a chip on your shoulder.

i just think if you are any kind of decent human being you would try to be tolerant and understand why people are different..

[besame las nalgas]

Well finally the new saying you don't like it Tough, Tell osama he cares

yeah he blows up innocent people because he is so full of hate esp for people different to himself... i cant see how he is your hero.. kinda like contemporary version of Hitler

[Shayne]

Ooo, this thread is hotting up. I like it.

[TiGeR]

Agreed- but there is a HUGE difference between immigrants accepting their new country & the new country accepting immigrants & allowing them to be assimilated...if this wasnt so, then you wouldnt have pockets of Lebanese/ Greeks/ Portuguese / Muslims, Hindis (apparently thats the plural of hindu?!) Irish & Italians in America etc in Oz, SA, UK, ,US, Zim (well, USED to anyway!) etc the world over if the locals TRULY accepted them...Africa you could say is different as 'white' ppl have only been there 400 odd yrs & the diffence is quite marked (hence the terms white & black!) but the difference between greeks & poms/ portuguese "white" ppl, is only language, but there is STILL a lack of acceptance & integration...THATS the real issue that is problematic- Immigrants CHOSE to move somewhere because of the opportunities (work, safety, freedom etc) but as much as they commit to the new country (immigrant populations have increased the GDP in their new countries by up to 45%- UN stat.) they are never really FULLY accepted...so they then become insular (hence we talk about the 'greek' community / 'porras' /'lebs'/ 'yids' & in Africa even the LOCALS are defined! ('afs', 'munts' etc)...geez, what a F:smiley35:D up world we live in!

So yes, good on the Aussies for standing up for "Australian" values, but define Australian- one can argue that Aboriginals are the only REAL "Australians" & the rest of the crew there are ALL immigrants, but you wont see too many 'white' Australians OR immigrants agreeing with that...NZ probably more so than any other country on earth has made a REAL effort to respect, assimilate & promote the Maori culture among ALL NZers...& even there its not perfect...so whose values are they REALLY promoting?...& are they really "Australian" values or immigrant Anglo Saxon/ become Australian values? Easy to argue the point from the side of the fence you sit, but put the show on te other foot as someone whose country, heritage & history has been trampled on by another race/ religion/ culture & its all a bit different...

I spent a day walking around the Museum of the Occupation in Riga, Latvia a few yrs ago...reading, looking at pictures, speaking to old codgers who'd lived through it...i cried like a baby for DAYS afterwards...those ppl were occupied by both the Russians & the Germans & systematically exterminated by both...from a population of 10 million in the late 1800s, to 300 000 in 1945! Multiply that across Europe just between 1929 & 45 & get the picture...& those were "white" ppl...so I went to the apartheid museum in Joburg a few months ago to see the other side ...& same again...HORIFFIC stuff.... had a headache for a wk i cried so much... been reading about the whole slave trade & slavery in the Americas etc (as much as the carry on by some 'african-americans' annoys the CRAP out of me, it was also HORIFFIC stuff...but there isnt too much written/ discussed about any of that stuff either...

I think i've digressed a tad here, but i'm sure any of the half intelligent, functionally literate folk out there (like me!) will get it! In summary, whatever you define yourself as, be consistent- If you are African/ Australian/ Christian/ Western/ WHATEVER, then be that ALL the time, not when it suits you...then ALL Americans/ Australians/ Africans can be exactly that...NOT 'white' Africans or 'African/ Irish/ Italian-Americans' or 'Chinese-Australian' etc...

[Greenballs]

I've started something here haven't I? Strange how emotions get involved as soon as relgion and race are even uttered? However, I think just a tad of over- reaction there people... let's stick to the fucking topic at hand, without making assumptions on colour! We're referring to people who are extrmists... who want the laws of a country, set by that countries parliament to change to suit their ideals. Get a job for fuck sakes... we're not talking about racism... we're simply agreeing that if those motherfuckas don't like it they can piss off. I come over to Thailand and accept the culture & religion because its not my country - I don't publically stress my views on anything weather I agree or disagree because its not my place. Do you walk into someone elses home and comment on how they should wipe their arse - & if you try and are told to piss off... what is that called?

And I don't refer to whites in London & NY... let me ask this in another way... how many of those people (white, black, yellow etc) are actually speaking English.

Arrive at Gatwick to questioned by an Indian in full traditional atire, asking you questions about why you're there etc... ironic???

[Greenballs]

And yes I agree with the very valid points made by Basame las nalgas & Tiger... its a fucked up world and people can be very narrow minded. However, lets keep this one going because it really ruffles the feathers. And I like Tiger's history lessons as well.

[TiGeR]

100% correct GB- when in Rome & all that...especially in a place/ country that allows one to continue practising ones own belief systems & cultural practices (within reason!) without persecution...intolerance as a guest is inexcusable & the Aussie, British, American etc govts have my vote to kick those ppls asses out...but again caution must be exercised (who polices the police/ home affairs etc & what is THEIR view/ standpoint)...remember the story- "they came for the homosexuals & alcoholics & i said nothing...they came for the homeless & destitute & still i said nothing...they came for the blacks/ whites/ farmers & farm labourers/ township dwellers & still i said nothing. Now they are coming for me & there is no one left to speak for me..." (with MASSIVE apologies to the author!) An excellent movie to give you a good perspective on this is V for Vendetta...

GB- nice one boet :smiley32: :smiley20: this has certainly got some dialogue going & that is what we need if we are ever going to change the world & make it a better place!

[besame las nalgas]

THATS sexest are you implying coz i am a woman i dont work?? i work plenty and none of its ironing or hoovering.. :)

in response to your question about language.. if you go to Spain.. each region has its own variation of spanish?? which spanish is more spanish than the next??? none.. why should people be speaking english in the UNITED KINGDOM considering you have Irish, Welsh and Bradfordians.. why should we support and conform to false notions of national identity which in essence is just the same as stereotypes?

[TiGeR]

THATS sexest are you implying coz i am a woman i dont work?? i work plenty and none of its ironing or hoovering.. :)

in response to your question about language.. if you go to Spain.. each region has its own variation of spanish?? which spanish is more spanish than the next??? none.. why should people be speaking english in the UNITED KINGDOM considering you have Irish, Welsh and Bradfordians.. why should we support and conform to false notions of national identity which in essence is just the same as stereotypes?

I suspect you are referring to dialect re: the spanish example, which does indeed vary, but the language 'spanish' remains the same...however, your point on why should 'english' be the lingua franca is valid- obviously there are historical connatations & reasons, but there is no longer any need for it to be the dominant language..but STILL it persists...so what does one do? Either 'vasbyt' as my afrikaans brothers would say, OR say 'the dogs bollocks to this' (in whatever language you choose) & fight for your own/ another language...sadly, i think ppl have blurred the lines between LANGUAGE & CULTURE somewhat...which leads to even MORE complex issues...take for example a BIG issue in SA at the moment..there are HEAPS of black african children who cant speak their 'mother tongue'...but of REAL interest (i think!) are the heaps of white african children (Jis like- AFRIKAANSE kinder nogaal! :smiley3: ) who cant speak afrikaans!...they are all of them, black & white turning to english as the medium of communicating & operating in the new SA...food for thought...

[zambezilover]

women should only be ironing and hoovering and know there place by the stove

[Shayne]

women should only be ironing and hoovering and know there place by the stove

:smiley3:

Ooo, i can see a Neg rep JIHAD happening. Brave man.

[Greenballs]

women should only be ironing and hoovering and know there place by the stove
That's gotta hurt... very brave man indeed.

[Greenballs]

You forgot to mention that the length of the chain between the kitchen and the TV room should only be long enough for her to reach the kitchen door!!!

Dialect... In China people within 100kms of each other would struggle to understand their neighbours, however, if they spoke Mandarin (which every Chinese person is taught at school) they would understand... but I guess you're right to a point, its weather they want to communicate or not that's important. People from the north dislike the ppl from the south. However, if they had to stand up against the Japanese for example (war/ confrontation) I'd put my cock on a block that a Chinaman would stand by his bros nevertheless! The same goes for Spanish, Italian or South African!

We can take this a step further and discuss Zim land reform in a similar context to what the Australians are saying - is Bob not doing something similar? If the whites don't like it they can leave? Basame... stop right there before you burst an eyelid! Right... I have had many a heated conversation with my collegues on the situation, with my view being that the whites could've handled the situation 100 yrs ago a lot more effectively, which in turn would've reduced todays impact. By this I mean - rather that use the labourers (locals/ blacks - is that impolite?)as just farm workers, they could've have given them a small piece of the pie and trained them in a commercial agricultural sense. I'm not agreeing with land reform here at all. What I'm saying is that if farmers approached this differently during the pioneer days, today wouldn't be so violent. But I ask myself as many keep telling me - would that have been enough? Would greed not have kicked in with locals wanting more and more until we have 100% reform anyway? So, its a very touchy subject to say the least - its only an alternate opinion that can never be proved. But if ppl were treated fairly, if they had any compassion they would be treating farmers fairly as well. Again, I still have doubts as I know many commercial farmers who treated their staff very well & provided housing, food, schools, clinics etc! So where are we going? Who's right and who's wrong (BOB's wrong we all know that) but who can tell me which would've been a better way of reducing todays fuck up? Was it the whites fault way back then or what? I can tell you one thing for sure though - kicking the whites out of Zim (or off farms rather) has crippled the country because indigenous farmers don't have a clue on how to produce commercial crops... why? They weren't taught how to? And because the whites took over (from a commercial/ agricultural stand point)... can we liken Bob to Howard in a sense?

And to end... Zambezilover... how big do you think the NZ's prime minister's ironing board is?

Where on earth did that bloody sexist thing come from anyway (???) - am I missing the point - however, a very good thread once we're done here...lets leave it to Zambezilover to kick it off?

[zambezilover]

I will put this very simply, it all boils down to power and greed and that is the root of almost every problem that faces humankind. That is what drives and fuels wars and upsets the balance.

[Greenballs]

I will put this very simply, it all boils down to power and greed and that is the root of almost every problem that faces humankind. That is what drives and fuels wars and upsets the balance.
Are you referring to domestic disputes here?

Good point on either issue tho:smiley32:

[leggless]

yeah he blows up innocent people because he is so full of hate esp for people different to himself... i cant see how he is your hero.. kinda like contemporary version of Hitler

I never said he was my hero but it always looks like whenever the west is wrong they want a holy war and want to take it out on the west. Who is always wanting to get rid of the west Osama. So my point is because nobody wants to listen whether they are i arab, black or what ever colour, if they are muslim it is never their own fault..
You look when the Jews moved ointo Palastine who gave the jews the swamps and all the shit land because the deemed it worthless the palastinans. SO the Jews build up the the soil make it all viable and now we want our land back the jews stole our land but who gave them the land the palasinians. Its the same the world over

[Greenballs]

Agreed to some point after I managed to get through the awful grammar! You look at people being questioned about what they think of terrorism in Western countries and look at their views on retaliation by the west & people imply that initially it was right but now its too much? Can you imagine a terror attack on Beijing or Shanghai... the Chinese would go ape shit and skin every fucker (involved) alive in the streets! Would they be questioned then... probably but would they give a shit what France thought about it. Well no... they'd tell the frogs to have sex and travel!

[besame las nalgas]

ha ha i was kind about the sexest comment.. OMG yall toooooo serious

anyways, being a cultural anthropologist i would have to say that notions of identity are layered LIKE ONION... people can simultaneously belong to so many dif identities at the end of the day there isn't really a proper identity just different classifications we use to create the notion of THEM VS US.. and this is why there is so much conflict.. if you look at almost every single country in the world you will notice that there are so many hegemonic movements/sub cultures. In South America you have this supposed united idea of everyone being LATINO.. but you have blancos, indios, Mulato, Negros etc..
if the world is so fragmented why spend countless hours trying to further fragment it?

can we honestly say that there are steps in place to create a more united society?? we all know how it was in zim.. maybe if people were covertly segregated things woulda been different.

[Greenballs]

:saint:

[Steve]

Here is my ten cents wort! You can postulate and preach all you desire. It is not about colour, creed , religion, race or whatevah. It is all about terrorism. And the largest group are from the Muslim community. Every day there is an act of teror enacted in the world. Good on ya Australians. If I go to any other country to live I have got to abide by their laws or suffer the consequence. If I where in an Arabic or Asian country and tried to demand that my law comes first I would be dispatched with extreme predudice!

There endeth the first lesson!

[Nyala]

I may be missing something here but I didn't see any reference to Black/White racism in the original post. I thought it was about evicting extremists out of Australia. Tiger, you have brought up some very valid points but lets get back to the beginning - if someone lives in a country they must live by the laws that govern that country, not so? If I chose to live in Iran, for example, I would fully expect my hands to be chopped off if I was caught stealing. English is the spoken language in Australia and Christianity is followed. The Aussies do not go around evicting Muslims or any other religion from their worship services and it is not illegal to follow a different faith - however, when a group begins to push their own culture and faith onto a land they have chosen to immigrate to, the government of that country has every right to give them the option to leave.

This whole saga came about because a well known Muslem cleric publically proclaimed that Australian girls should expect to be raped because of the way they dress and the fact that they stay out after dark. To me this is giving licence to Muslem men as well giving them the cover and protection of their church and has been interpreted as such by the vast majority of Australians.

I fully agree with the statement 'If you don't like OUR way of life, GO HOME!'

[Raevoyn]

and then ......

[dallas]

Well said Nyala!!!!

[Raevoyn]

Hear Hear!
I think I might actually start liking Australians, making a stand for once instead sitting on the fence and being spineless Jelly-fishes and running around hanging on to the coat-tails of the UK and the USA!