Why should South Africa be kept in the Tri-Nations?

[biffon]

After thise weeks announcement by Jake White to send a Second String Side on their Away Leg of the Tri-Nations. there has been talk of the legitimacy of the Commitment of South Africa to the Tri Nations Competition... Australia have openly suggested that the TriNations be done Away with and Cancel their Match Against South Africa in Favour of One More Bledisloe Test match against New Zealand.

New Zealand will no doubt be questioning South Africas involvement after Last weekends off-the-ball Tactics on Richie McCaw and others. Especially in a World Cup year where Everyone is trying to shelter their best players from injury...

What you guys think about it.....


Oh yeah and on a side note i see Tonderai Chavhanga is in the Squad... :smiley20:
Squad to tour Australia and New Zealand:
Backs:
Tonderai Chavhanga, Michael Claassens, Bolla Conradie, Bevin Fortuin, Peter Grant, Derick Hougaard, Wayne Julies, Waylon Murray, Wynand Olivier, Breyton Paulse, Ruan Pienaar, JP Pietersen, Jaco Pretorius

Forwards:
Johan Ackermann, Eddie Andrews, Gary Botha, Deon Carstens, Bismarck du Plessis, Jannie du Plessis, Kabamba Floors, Hilton Lobberts, Johann Muller, Bob Skinstad, Albert van den Berg, Wikus van Heerden, Jacques Cronje, Cobus Visagie, Pedrie Wannenburg.

[Edmonsta]

They've wanted to kick SA out of the Tri Nations for a while now, and this is a great excuse. Look at the players from last week - they're physically fucked!

Australia are pissed off because they don't have the depth to be able to rest top players, otherwise they would be doing exactly the same thing.

Don't know what New Zealand have to complain about, as they were the ones that invented the concept of resting players in a world cup year. Interesting that they're complaining about off the ball tactics - did we watch the same game?? Not doubting that it happens, but those in glass houses should not throw stones. They know South Africa struggles with political problems and they love to have a little dig. If they can plant the seed about illegal tactics and dirty play, then it gives the refs a little something to think about, and gives the media and crowds something to dislike SA for...

I think the side isn't really as second string as they make it out to be, Jake White is known for his favouritism and sticking with the old, so seeing a new comnination is refreshing. This does in no way compare in weakness to any of the teams Wales, England, France, etc put together for their tours.

I'd actually be very keen to see this team perform. There are a few I don't agree with, but in general, I'd really like to see how they combine, and I am sure that they will do ok.

Aus and NZ need to stop whinging and let us field who we want to field. I really hope this team surprises them and sticks it to them.

[biffon]

There is more than one reason Australia is upset.
1) After coming so close to beating SA it set the stage for a rematch at home... that is now going to be a farce... people buy tickets because of the anticipated matchup... now you'll find not many more tickets will be sold for that game.
2) SA made sure they fielded their best players at home so that they could benefit the most from the financial side of things now that the other two nations are playing their home games they are suddenly reneging on their commitment to field their best side.
3) only 9 players are injured, 5 of them were against Australia which gives them three weeks of rest, the rest have at least 2 weeks.
4) Australia doesnt have the depth to be able to do that or....they will field a second rate side in fact i have a feeling they will do that just to prove a point, even if they lose!
5)Maybe we werent watching the same game, believe me im no NZ supporter but when someone comes off the field with TWO black eyes i'd say hes had a pretty rough game. Looked like Richie ran into a couple of Bakkies Botha ham sandwiches to me!

[Shifty]

I don't think South Africa are doing anything that NZ, Australia and most of the Northern Hemisphere teams haven't already done.

I don't think it's right but at the moment everyone is doing it.

I do think it diminishes the credibility of some of the premier competitions and international tests. For example, the French tour of NZ was an absolute farce.

Perhaps the Bledisloe Cup and the Tri-nations should have been postponed this year. If all the countries involved are going to send over their B-C teams, then what is the point?

And as usual, it's the fans who get shafted. They're still expected to pay full price of course.

[Edmonsta]

I agree - remove the Tri Nations from a world cup year. We like watching plenty of rugby, but not at the cost of losing players and watching diluted games.

[barto11]

look at the squad...it isnt all bad, i dont like the idea but i can see why JW is doing it...a possible starting 15...fortuin, paulse, murray, olivier, pieterson, grant, pienaar, skinstad, van Heerden, Wannenberg, Muller, Ackerman , du Plessis, Botha, Carstens...could compete with abs and wallabies

[biffon]

Noones arguing that the players arent world class but they have not been picked as SA's best therefore should not be called "Springboks" maybe "baby boks" or "Bokke part B" would be more appropriate.

[FlexUK]

If they feel the need to test the depth of their squad prior to World Cup then so be it. Think people are making a big deal about nothing. They'll still only come Secong in Tri Nations so i think Jake White has it right. World Cup is the priority!

ITS ALL ABOUT THE ALL BLACKS BABY!

Dan Carter = God!:smiley32:

[spuff]

I think the main problem is, the lack of open and honest communications for the Boks. You may call the NZrs hypocritical for complaining, but the circumstances are different. It was widely publicized that the NZ S14 teams would be without 22 players (spread over 5 teams). So people who didn't think it would be worth paying to watch didn't have to. Also the NZ'rs didn't play full teams when at home, to get maximum profit.
The boks gave assurances to both NZ and Aus, even up to right before last weekends match, that they will be sending a full team. I think up to 30 000 tickets had been purchased by then, by Oz fans keen on a decent rematch. I think it is unfair to them especially.
Also, I have to wonder - if the boks had beaten the AB's last weekend, would he still have rested his players, or would he have tried to gain momentum by winning the 3N's? I think it is an effort in damage control, and reeks of duplicity. Physically exhausted? The NZ teams have been playing in semifinals and finals of the super12/14 since it started, as well as the 3N's (and for the past year, an EXTRA game of 3N's) So that doesn't wash with me.
Anyway, it could end up being a mistake for the boks, because I think it will damage their confidence for achieving critical away wins.
Now I have had my rant, I am off to try and sell my ticket. Offers?

[Edmonsta]

I can see the argument from a NZ or Aus fan's point of view - We (SA) would probably be moaning if the shoe was on the other foot.

Having said that - we're playing more rugby than ever before - the S14 is now longer, there are more tests, last year there wasn't a world cup, so you can't compare apples with Oranges in terms of the All Blacks playing the same amount of rugby in the past as this current Bok team. If the All Blacks did not rest their players from the S14, they wouldn't be part of this conversation, as they'd be doing the same right now, I guarantee that.

What would the other coaches do if they were in the same position as Jake White?

I can't wait for next week.

[spuff]

Me neither - it will be very interesting. By the way, if you wanted to compare apples with apples, what would be the reaction in SA if the Blues and the Crusaders sent second string sides to the S14 semi's? (last minute of course!)
Also the WC has taken the place of the End of Year Tours, so the amount of rugby the AB's played last year is pretty close in comparison, bar a few meaningless pool games this year- and anyway most of the top teams will use the pool games to "rotate" their top players.
Having said that, after seeing the team list for the boks, they are not total unknowns, so lets see. If they win, or lose by less than 10 points, then they can feel justified with their decision - however unfortunately for the Ozzies the media has beat this up so much, ticket sales will still be the main problem.

[Edmonsta]

I dunno, don't think we would have had the hoo-haa that we've got now if that was the case. SA was so happy to be in the semis (and final) and I don't think this would have affected ticket sales. I guess I'm only speaking from my own personal opinion here, but I would have given my left nut to be at the semis if I was in SA, weakend opposition or not.

I hear what you say about the WC being rotation time and there being less games (apples with apples) but I guess it does bring me back to - if the All Blacks weren't rested in the S14, we could have had them doing the same thing right now.

That's the problem with the media - they piss me off. Being in Melbourne - I've had a few people come up to me at work - "Hey, what's this about SA sending a 2nd team to play Australia next week?" and they're not even interested in rugby - usually when I try and drum up some interest in them, they're like "Rugby, ey? Nah mate, I'm into footy..."

Weird.

Anyway, the Bledisloe is going to rock this weekend - they're saying 100,000 plus on the radio? Didn't know MCG could fit that many?? I think I've got the worst seats in the stadium, but the atmoshere will be good - and we won't get wet as we're so far up, haha....

[Bolty]

i tried to buy tickets for bledisloe yesterday - there was 1 left right at the top of the stands - nah!

[Bolty]

Glad i didnt go - the AB's lost ??

[yarrumsg]

without having read what others have posted, so this may be a repeat...

at the end of the day you have to prepare for all eventualities, eventually the first string side will retire, then what? you need people coming through do you want them to be green hornes? doubt it...

you need to be able to pick your strongest squad how do people make it through? currie cup? super 14... great but what happens when you play a full strength squad? the second string squad that played Samoa were crap they need the exposure as a team to gain that confidence.

the current squad need a rest, you can't keep playing week in week out, they have currie cup and family commitments plus the world cup later this year

and finally god forbid but look what happend to i think it was zambia their first class squad got taken out in a plane crash, could u imagine trying to rebuild a team as great as the one now and get them world cup ready?

if they think they can take a B squad and compete just as well brilliant give it a go...

[biffon]

youre missing the point!
the point is Jake White has an obligation to the media and to Australia and New Zealand based on their commitments to the tri nations... the arguement has nothing to do with maintaining depth in the squad, or protecting injuries, that is a seperate issue and other teams have dealt with these issues effectively throughout the year leading up to the tri nations.

IMHO I hope they get a bloody hiding, because it smacks of arrogance!

[Edmonsta]

I think I'll just agree to disagree and leave it there.

What did you think of the game last night?

I had a ball, but to be honest, didn't see much rugby at all... too many distractions... and beer.... we were pretty high up in the rafters....

Can you believe that they ran out of Rum just after kickoff... At a Bundaberg Sponsored event!?!?! There were some reeeeally unhappy Bundy fans.

That was the first time I'd seen the ABs live, and first time at the G. Great fun.

[FerrariSucks]

when does the Premiership start?

[Shifty]

Boot 'Boks out of Tri Nations – Moffett

By GREG GROWDEN - SMH


The South African Rugby Union is "an absolute disgrace" and the Springboks should be kicked out of the Tri Nations, says David Moffett, one of the chief architects of SANZAR.

Moffett, the former head of Australia's National Rugby League and the New Zealand, Wales and NSW rugby unions, told the Sydney Morning Herald last night that Australia and New Zealand had to cut South Africa from the next television deal, and instead play more trans-Tasman matches.
"It is imperative that Australia and New Zealand cast South Africa adrift," Moffett said.
"The players are just getting killed by all the travel."

And rather than having a Super 14 with five South African provinces, Moffett said the tournament should be disbanded and replaced by a Super 10 competition with five New Zealand teams and five Australian teams, with the fifth Australian team being based in Melbourne.

He added that when expansion was required, national teams from the Pacific Islands, based in Australia and New Zealand, should be included.
In 1996, Moffett was heavily involved in the formation of SANZAR, the Super 12 and Tri Nations, but is now a vocal opponent. Speaking from New Zealand, where he recently moved after leaving the Welsh Rugby Union, Moffett said this Saturday's Test at Telstra Stadium had been tarnished by South Africa leaving 20 of their best players behind.

Moffett has been particularly trenchant on the subject in his newspaper column with The Press newspaper in Christchurch. He wrote at the weekend that: "With friends like South Africa who needs enemies? The SARU are an absolute disgrace and should be told immediately by NZ and Australia that they will not be required when the next television rights deal is negotiated [in 2010].

"We are led to believe that all three SANZAR countries had agreed to field their strongest teams, and in fact NZ and Australia had sent their best available players (to South Africa) and filled the stadia and coffers of SARU.

"What was the response of our supposed partner? They waited until after the second Test and selected a B team. If I was a paranoid type I would be thinking conspiracy. Denying NZ and Australia hard match practice against one of the best teams in the world in the lead-up to the World Cup will obviously harm the preparation of the All Blacks and Wallabies.
"Of course, the other injured party in this sorry saga of selfishness by SARU is SANZAR's major financial partner, News Limited. Their response so far has been muted, but I can imagine their fury behind the scenes."
Moffett said there was a simple solution - "ditch South Africa from the next TV deal".

"They behave more and more like northern hemisphere unions and should make it official by playing in competitions in the north," he said.
"New Zealand and Australia can get a much better deal for fans, players, sponsors and broadcasters by playing three Bledisloes a year, and a home and away trans-Tasman Super 10 competition. Selfishness seems to be the order of the day in the professional rugby era and perhaps now is the time for Australia and NZ to play that game."

Moffett said as the South Africans had treated Australia and New Zealand with disdain, the two countries should consider organising important lead-up matches in the UK just before the World Cup, so that they hit the tournament with match fitness and form.



Whilst he does raise some valid points, they're nothing new. I firmly believe that he is overreacting.

Kick the Boks out of the Tri-nations? Jeez, what a whinger. He should be coming up with viable proposals.

Kicking the Boks out of the tri-nations is hardly the solution.

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[Edmonsta]

Moffat has had it in for South Africa for a long time now, and this just fuels his argument - I can see him rubbing his hands together with glee.

At the end of last year he was crying to kick South Africa out of the Super 14 because we were too weak - We managed to get 2 teams in the final and we haven't heard a peep out of him. Now he wants us kicked out because we're "disgraceful" and the travel is killing the players.

Methinks he has a personal agenda.

[Shifty]

Moffat has had it in for South Africa for a long time now, and this just fuels his argument - I can see him rubbing his hands together with glee.

At the end of last year he was crying to kick South Africa out of the Super 14 because we were too weak - We managed to get 2 teams in the final and we haven't heard a peep out of him. Now he wants us kicked out because we're "disgraceful" and the travel is killing the players.

Methinks he has a personal agenda.

I haven’t read or heard much about Moffett at all until this article today. But his comments really irritated me, because they weren’t constructive and appeared to be totally biased. I’m glad you noticed too.

You would expect remarks like that to come from the mouths of the typical man on the street and definitely not from someone in his position.

He really really should know better.

[biffon]

he almost sounds a bit like another outspoken Aussie.. David Campese!
That guy should just shut up sometimes!(yes that is only my opinion- though i suspect others have similar views on him- Go do some coaching and stop embarrasing yourself Campo!)

Although Moffett raises valid points in the reasons why Australia and new Zealand fans are upset with SARFU and Jake, he takes it one step further and sounds like a whiney child that was told he couldnt have a new toy!

Im also over it, I say bring em on! For one thing it can only strengthen South Africa's depth - and i suspect that was the primary reason for doing it rather than the "exhaustion" excuse.
The fact that Jake has dismissed his teams last humiliation by the Wallabies at home(read 49-0) was not so long ago, makes me think the Boks are in for a hding this weekend... but the unpredictable nature of recent results may throw up a few surprises!

I hope Tonderai Chavhanga makes a big impression as he has been on the outer for most of the last two years and is a real talent.